WHUT (Howard University Television)
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special expanding the debate broadcast with mitt romney and president obama as they debated at the university of denver here in colorado. back with the debate in a moment. ♪ [music break] >> this is "democracy now!," democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. road in denver, colorado, as we continue our special coverage of the purse presidential debate, expanding the debate. this is what democracy sounds like. as president obama and mitt romney squared off, we broke the sound barrier by expanding the debate to include two candidates in real-time. the green party's jill stein in the justice party's rocky anderson. we turn now to social security. in the official debate, the moderator asked obama and romney if there were any differences in their views on social security. >> i suspect we have some similar positions. it is structurally sound. it will have to be tweaked the way was by ronald reagan and speaker -- democratic speaker tip o'neill. but the basic structure is sound. but i'm not to talk about the guy is behind social security and medicare, and then talk about medicare
special expanding the debate broadcast with mitt romney and president obama as they debated at the university of denver here in colorado. back with the debate in a moment. ♪ [music break] >> this is "democracy now!," democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. road in denver, colorado, as we continue our special coverage of the purse presidential debate, expanding the debate. this is what democracy sounds like. as president obama and mitt romney squared off,...
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president obama and his people are doing it on this day after the debate. here is ed henry. >> i met this very spirited fellow who claimed to be mitt romney. >> at his had first rally after the debate debauchle, president obama immediately went on the attack, saying his performance was not as fine as his top campaign advisors are insisting. >> the man on stage last night, he does not want to be held accountable for the real mitt romney's decisions and what he's been saying for the last year and that's because he knows full well that we don't want what he's been selling for the last year. >> yet even some veteran democrats didn't seem to be buying that explanation. >> i don't think the president took him very seriously and he should have and for a large part, the president just looked bored and wanted to get this darn thing over with. >> in the spin room last night, and on the morning talk show circuit today, the obama camp was pushing a much different narrative, claiming mitt romney only won through rehearsed lines and lies. >> he may win the oscar for his
president obama and his people are doing it on this day after the debate. here is ed henry. >> i met this very spirited fellow who claimed to be mitt romney. >> at his had first rally after the debate debauchle, president obama immediately went on the attack, saying his performance was not as fine as his top campaign advisors are insisting. >> the man on stage last night, he does not want to be held accountable for the real mitt romney's decisions and what he's been saying for...
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i moderated four obama debates in the last cycle four years ago including one-on-one debate at the kodak theater with hillary clinton and barack obama, one of their last debates before he won the democratic presidential nomination. you know, he wasn't a fabulous debater but he was solid and when he had to he went after her and went after john edwards and the other democratic candidates but over the past four years he has been president and clearly not involved in these kind of debates and his advisers should have been better prepared and they have have worked with him a the although more to get ready and they have have studied. mitt romney was a very good debater and i did three debates this time where he really undermined rick perry or rick santorum or newt gingrich. he knew how to do it and it was underlined last well. >> the voters better hope they are not going to the polls today and -- or doing the early voting. >> still two mow presidential debates -- more presidential debates and vice presidential debates. there is a flip side of saying the president will get re-elected. four and
i moderated four obama debates in the last cycle four years ago including one-on-one debate at the kodak theater with hillary clinton and barack obama, one of their last debates before he won the democratic presidential nomination. you know, he wasn't a fabulous debater but he was solid and when he had to he went after her and went after john edwards and the other democratic candidates but over the past four years he has been president and clearly not involved in these kind of debates and his...
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you've got romney obama debate. big bird. >> and jobs. so we see the focus on it was mostly about the economy, you see the focus on the substance of this debate as opposed to just the zingers and squabbling between the candidates and i was fascinated by the role of xbox. >> xbox is a controller you can use in your living room to play games on your television set and there's a subscription called xbox live. you can play with people by using a game controller. well, what happened last night is that xbox decided to let the video of the debate stream and they posed questions to gameers saying "at this moment who would you vote for?" immediately you had obama 75% of the gamers say yes or mitt romney 10% of the gamers say yes. it's a big figure but you get the point. >> even though this is only about 10,000 participated in this microsoft game, these are mostly younger men, 18 to 29 not plugged into politics who are harder to reach and the fact that they were engaged in answering these questions about presidential debate i think is a watershed m
you've got romney obama debate. big bird. >> and jobs. so we see the focus on it was mostly about the economy, you see the focus on the substance of this debate as opposed to just the zingers and squabbling between the candidates and i was fascinated by the role of xbox. >> xbox is a controller you can use in your living room to play games on your television set and there's a subscription called xbox live. you can play with people by using a game controller. well, what happened last...
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i watched obama debate alive in primaries when i was with clinton -- debate a lot in primaries. this is the guy that showed up. he is a good debater, but doesn't enjoy it. you look through this debate, ann romney looked like he enjoyed it and was having fun. obama just looked sort of sour and it was like another headache that he had to be there. romney support is needed to be reinvigorated. the question is, what did happen with the undecideds. is that enthusiasm going to spread out in terms of who is going to vote. >> was their body language that you noticed? >> i thought both of them behaved with considerable dignity and courtesy to each other, which people like. as meaghan pointed out, the president was continually looking down and sometimes had an expression on his face that seemed like a smirk. that never helps you. i thought governor romney's body language was pretty good, and the expression on his face this kind of a half smile, not a smirk, as he was looking at the president while he spoke. it was probably better than having him looking down. those observations on body la
i watched obama debate alive in primaries when i was with clinton -- debate a lot in primaries. this is the guy that showed up. he is a good debater, but doesn't enjoy it. you look through this debate, ann romney looked like he enjoyed it and was having fun. obama just looked sort of sour and it was like another headache that he had to be there. romney support is needed to be reinvigorated. the question is, what did happen with the undecideds. is that enthusiasm going to spread out in terms of...
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when we asked debate watchers their opinion of president obama before the debate, after the debate, favorable, unfavorable, unchanged essentially, and the same for mitt romney, unchanged. mitt romney, 55% favorable. high for him. so while they may have believed mitt romney won the debate, the question is whether it chaz changed their attitude toward mitt mitt romney. >> first of all, that sample i think we'll find out that sample was more than just a few points more republican. i have never seen a poll like that. the second thing is, you got to say the idea is that you moved the needle to favorability. -- 65% said he won it. and if you look at the issue of distinctions in a sample that seemed to me to be a few points more republican, i'm now -- and people say, yes, he won the debate. everybody here says he won the debate. i'm not sure if the payoff will be that huge. >> we don't know the payoff yet. one way or the other. the sample sounds like it's skews. but it's worth noting that cbs took a poll tonight of undecideds, and had 2-1 romney winning. we have two polls out there. we'll
when we asked debate watchers their opinion of president obama before the debate, after the debate, favorable, unfavorable, unchanged essentially, and the same for mitt romney, unchanged. mitt romney, 55% favorable. high for him. so while they may have believed mitt romney won the debate, the question is whether it chaz changed their attitude toward mitt mitt romney. >> first of all, that sample i think we'll find out that sample was more than just a few points more republican. i have...
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tv debate -- heat s up as mitt romney takes the fight to president obama in their first tv debate. >> michael schumacher announces his retirement. we do not want war, but we will protect our borders. that is the message from turkey after 24 hours that saw it launch multiple attacks on syria and a green light from lawmakers for more to damage the u.s. state department said it considered -- for more. >> the u.s. state department said it considered turkey's response to be proportionate. thursday morning, turkey launched a second round of shelling. some reports say several syrian soldiers were killed. >> the retaliation came after five turkish civilians were killed after syrian mortar fire. turkey says that syria has now apologized for that incident and has promised it would not happen again. >> it is a small turkish town bordering war-torn syria. it has come under the line of fire. syrian borders struck a residential neighborhood, killing five civilians -- syrian mortars struck a residential neighborhood, killing five civilians. cross-border buyer has struck 37 times since the start of
tv debate -- heat s up as mitt romney takes the fight to president obama in their first tv debate. >> michael schumacher announces his retirement. we do not want war, but we will protect our borders. that is the message from turkey after 24 hours that saw it launch multiple attacks on syria and a green light from lawmakers for more to damage the u.s. state department said it considered -- for more. >> the u.s. state department said it considered turkey's response to be...
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we've soon barack obama debate better than he did tonight. has the presidency changed himself so much that he can't go back to being a good debater? this is what he's like now? >> that's the $64 question. if what we saw tonight is what we see in the next two debates, president obama is going to be in serious trouble. how is this going to play in ohio? he has to make the case to the middle class that he's headed in the right direction with the economy. >> not one time did he say i want the american people to know we've added private-sector jobs for the last 30 months and we're headed in the right direction. how hard is that to say? is that hard? >> ezra klein is coming up to check some of the money numbers that we did hear tonight. we're mad about the numbers that were not articulated as we check the one that were. our live coverage of the first presidential debate. stay with us. >> this tax plan. and now, five weeks before the election, he's saying that his big bold idea is, never mind. >> we'll focus on getting the cost of health care down.
we've soon barack obama debate better than he did tonight. has the presidency changed himself so much that he can't go back to being a good debater? this is what he's like now? >> that's the $64 question. if what we saw tonight is what we see in the next two debates, president obama is going to be in serious trouble. how is this going to play in ohio? he has to make the case to the middle class that he's headed in the right direction with the economy. >> not one time did he say i...
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the disparity led to a perception that president obama lost the debate. if you look at the commentary, not from the right, but people who love barack obama, almost every one of them, every pundit was saying that he lost. some saying he lost decisively. some saying he lost so badly, it could cost him the election. to me, it's hyperbolic. it speaks to the fact mitt romney changed the narrative of the campaign. >> what does it mean, jim, for mitt romney. if we accept he won the night last night, how does he make it about more than one night and a turning point in the campaign? >> i can't emphasize how big last night was for mitt romney. you have to view it from the mitt romney that came into the debate. conservatives were down on him. his staff were down on him. donors were reluctant to give money to him. most thought he had no opportunity to win the race. he comes out of the debate as somebody who reassured conservatives. his biggest critics are applauding him. the donors are excited again. republicans will gather around him. he has a week or two of positiv
the disparity led to a perception that president obama lost the debate. if you look at the commentary, not from the right, but people who love barack obama, almost every one of them, every pundit was saying that he lost. some saying he lost decisively. some saying he lost so badly, it could cost him the election. to me, it's hyperbolic. it speaks to the fact mitt romney changed the narrative of the campaign. >> what does it mean, jim, for mitt romney. if we accept he won the night last...
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whereas obama at some times look a bit bewildered. i wanted to see a really good debate. obama was very passive. how do we move forward? this raises the bar for romney and for obama. so i think our next debate is going to be a little more livelier, jon. jon: cory, even big obama supporters like bill maher, bill maher tweeted out during the debate that it looks like president obama doesn't even realize he is showing up here for a job interview. >> well, jon, there is no question about it that mitt romney did a good job of exceeding dramatically low expectations. definitely won the expectations game, right. jon: if he won the debate? that is more than exceeding low expectations, isn't it? >> i think so. >> but here's the point, the point is at end of the day debates about specifics. this was very substantive debate last night. even the president at the end thought it was a very good conversation but i think his strongest point throughout the night when he pointed out, you know, the governor romney's ideas apparently are too good to communicate to the american people. he wan
whereas obama at some times look a bit bewildered. i wanted to see a really good debate. obama was very passive. how do we move forward? this raises the bar for romney and for obama. so i think our next debate is going to be a little more livelier, jon. jon: cory, even big obama supporters like bill maher, bill maher tweeted out during the debate that it looks like president obama doesn't even realize he is showing up here for a job interview. >> well, jon, there is no question about it...
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president obama and governor romney faced off tonight in the first of three debates before election day on november 6th. domestic policy was in focus during the 90-minute showdown at the university of denver. the platform gave govern romney an opportunity to reignite his campaign which has suffered some this summer. they sparred across a range of issues. >> there's a various done of small businesses across the country saying what's the effect of obamacare in your hiring plans. three quarters said it makes us less likely to hire people. i just don't know how the president could come into office, facing 23 million people out of work, rising unemployment and economic crises at the kitchen table, and spend his energy and passion for two years fighting for obamacare instead of fighting for jobs for the american people. >> the irony is that we've seen this model work really well, in massachusetts. because govern romney did a good thing, working with democrats in the state to set up what is essentially the identical model, and as a consequence, people are covered there. it hasn't destroyed job
president obama and governor romney faced off tonight in the first of three debates before election day on november 6th. domestic policy was in focus during the 90-minute showdown at the university of denver. the platform gave govern romney an opportunity to reignite his campaign which has suffered some this summer. they sparred across a range of issues. >> there's a various done of small businesses across the country saying what's the effect of obamacare in your hiring plans. three...
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he did not control the debate at all. obama had much more time than romney. i think a couple of times, romney did sort of interrupt, but he had to. obama had been on for five minutes. i timed it myself. the other thing is that people are saying that romney did not lay out his agenda very well. i think he did. he explained what he wanted to do, 1, 2, 3, several times. the lady from florida said that he didn't explain what he was going to
he did not control the debate at all. obama had much more time than romney. i think a couple of times, romney did sort of interrupt, but he had to. obama had been on for five minutes. i timed it myself. the other thing is that people are saying that romney did not lay out his agenda very well. i think he did. he explained what he wanted to do, 1, 2, 3, several times. the lady from florida said that he didn't explain what he was going to
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throughout last night's debate, president obama seemed to for get he was on camera, standing down at his lectern, taking notes instead of looking directly at governor romney. t his performance blew up the performance. less looking down, making nodes you look like your hanging your head in shame, and more eye contact. look at mitt like he's a nut. here with a critique and debate for the next one, master thespian, james lipton. always a pleasure to have you on set. i'm eager to hear of what you made of both perform 's last night. but let's start with the president's? >> may i start with romney? >> go for it. >> roll right over alex. >> whoa. >> the washington of romney rolled over the moderator last night? the thing about -- i came to first because i had writ ain't piece for the "new york" magazine, how to act human, giving romney advice. since then i've tried to pursue him, but that's not easy. he's elusive. >> yes. >> he keeps recasting himself, recasting himself. i've tried to flail it down. before last night's event i had come to the conclusion i finally had typecast him, because h
throughout last night's debate, president obama seemed to for get he was on camera, standing down at his lectern, taking notes instead of looking directly at governor romney. t his performance blew up the performance. less looking down, making nodes you look like your hanging your head in shame, and more eye contact. look at mitt like he's a nut. here with a critique and debate for the next one, master thespian, james lipton. always a pleasure to have you on set. i'm eager to hear of what you...
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going into the debate, president obama was way ahead of romney in the likability polls. last night, romney one-up the president on his own wedding anniversary. first, obama. >> a lot of points i want to make tonight. but the most important one is that 20 years ago, i became the luckiest man on earth, because michelle obama agreed to marry me. and so i just want to wish, sweetie, you, happy anniversary, and let you know that i year from now, we will not be celebrating it in front of 40 million people. >> romney grabbed the ball, responded in a way that was downright charming. >> and congratulations to you, mr. president, on your anniversary. i'm sure this was the most romantic place you could imagine here, here with me. so i -- congratulations. >> cnn contributor's will cain, roland martin, who leans left, are here to discuss. welcome, gentlemen. >> how are you doing? >> the moment you just played that's an important moment. >> talk about that. you know, mitt romney got a big laugh. he seemed genuine. >> right. i think i talk toud about this the other day. mike deaver, th
going into the debate, president obama was way ahead of romney in the likability polls. last night, romney one-up the president on his own wedding anniversary. first, obama. >> a lot of points i want to make tonight. but the most important one is that 20 years ago, i became the luckiest man on earth, because michelle obama agreed to marry me. and so i just want to wish, sweetie, you, happy anniversary, and let you know that i year from now, we will not be celebrating it in front of 40...
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debates between them. though they have their weaknesses, they both have considerable strengths. as president obama touched down in denver this afternoon, he brought the experience of 22 previous presidential debates, primary and general election, with him. we've seen him draw upon his command in being able to make a bold pledge. >> and if we have osama bin laden in our sights, and the pakistani government is unable or unwilling to take them out, then i think that we have to act and we will take them out. >> reporter: and we've seen him tap his reservoir of righteousness to make a strong attack. >> you said we knew where the weapons of mass destruction were. you were wrong. you said that we were going to be greeted as liberators. you were wrong. >> reporter: tonight will be mitt romney's 36th presidential debate. though his first as nominee. his team is hoping he'll show the agility we've seen him display. >> if people are looking for someone who will discriminate against gays, they won't find that in me. >
debates between them. though they have their weaknesses, they both have considerable strengths. as president obama touched down in denver this afternoon, he brought the experience of 22 previous presidential debates, primary and general election, with him. we've seen him draw upon his command in being able to make a bold pledge. >> and if we have osama bin laden in our sights, and the pakistani government is unable or unwilling to take them out, then i think that we have to act and we...
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the obama camp is promising what it calls strategic adjustments for the next debate in 13 days. tax policy was one of the most hotly contested issues. jim range the separates fact from fiction. we have new information about the internal obama administration debate about what to call the deadly attack on the u.s. mission in libya. this comes as we hear an f.b.i. team has come and gone from benghazi. world leader turns 60 in style. "special report" from washington starts at 6 eastern. now we'll send it back to new york with my colleagues with "the five". >> last night it was tk obama at the first debate in denver. how did he react today? >> so you see the man on stage last night, he does not want to be held accountable for the real mitt romney's decisions and what he's been saying for the last year. that's because he knows full well that we don't want what he's been selling for the last year. governor romney may dance around his positions, but if you want to be president, you owe the american people the truth. >> so kimberly, a little different today than last night, huh? >> well,
the obama camp is promising what it calls strategic adjustments for the next debate in 13 days. tax policy was one of the most hotly contested issues. jim range the separates fact from fiction. we have new information about the internal obama administration debate about what to call the deadly attack on the u.s. mission in libya. this comes as we hear an f.b.i. team has come and gone from benghazi. world leader turns 60 in style. "special report" from washington starts at 6 eastern....
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in fact, the "los angeles times" says, quote, obama fans are shocked by mitt romney's dominance in debate. "the chicago tribune" said for obama words not said spoke the loude loudest. it said obama hit with a left hook on tv and online. the president is hitted to wisconsin, but not before taking one last parting shot a a fiery rally in denver not too long ago. >> when i got onto the stage, i met this very spirited fellow who claimed to be mitt romney. it couldn't have been mitt romney, because the real mitt romney has been running around the country for the last year promising $5 trillion in tax cuts to pay for the wealthy. the fellow on stage last night said he didn't know anything about that. >> around the same time governor romney was making a surprise appearance at the conservative political action conference, cpac in denver before heading to virginia for an event with congressman paul ryan later on this evening. zoo >> i know your passion for econo america and your desire to take our country back. for that to happen you guys have to cheer here and knock on doors and get people who vo
in fact, the "los angeles times" says, quote, obama fans are shocked by mitt romney's dominance in debate. "the chicago tribune" said for obama words not said spoke the loude loudest. it said obama hit with a left hook on tv and online. the president is hitted to wisconsin, but not before taking one last parting shot a a fiery rally in denver not too long ago. >> when i got onto the stage, i met this very spirited fellow who claimed to be mitt romney. it couldn't have...
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mitt romney is the clear winner of last night's debate, even i'm co conceding the obama loss. we all agree on this. the real question on moving forward is weather romney's win will change the race. we've seen mondale outperform president raleigh in 1984 and with john kerry defeated bush. neither kerry or mondale translated that into an election night win, although steve kornacki likes to think about a potential mondale president history. as the dust settles, they're back on the trail today. obama is en route to a rally in wisconsin, but earlier today in denver supporters saw the obama we hoped to see last night. >> when i got onto the stage, i met this very spirited fellow who claimed to be mitt romney. he said that he doesn't even know that there's such laws that encourage outsourcing, never heard of them. he said if it's true, he must need a new accountant. we know for sure it was not the real mitt romney, because he seems to be doing just fine with his current accountant. thank goodness somebody is finally getting tough on big bird. it's about time. >> that guy's a winner.
mitt romney is the clear winner of last night's debate, even i'm co conceding the obama loss. we all agree on this. the real question on moving forward is weather romney's win will change the race. we've seen mondale outperform president raleigh in 1984 and with john kerry defeated bush. neither kerry or mondale translated that into an election night win, although steve kornacki likes to think about a potential mondale president history. as the dust settles, they're back on the trail today....
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debate jule but the latest c.n.n. poll shows the incumbent took a beating out he's going to change a cab full of the debate. mr romney did seem more alert he actually did better than many thought he would considering all his gaffes and misfires in this election campaign he of course took advantage of the fact that the recovery under president obama has been slow the country is running a huge deficit gigantic debt more than sixteen trillion dollars that's one hundred four percent of the nation's g.d.p. the president's main argument was that mr romney wants to go back to the same policies that landed the u.s. and the world for that matter in the economic mess four years ago that everybody's still struggling to recover from so there was a lot of back and forth about who's going to be paying for what and how they both gave different numbers citing different studies at some point it got kind of confusing but in general it looked as if one of them was saying he wants to raise taxes and the other one goes no he wants to rais
debate jule but the latest c.n.n. poll shows the incumbent took a beating out he's going to change a cab full of the debate. mr romney did seem more alert he actually did better than many thought he would considering all his gaffes and misfires in this election campaign he of course took advantage of the fact that the recovery under president obama has been slow the country is running a huge deficit gigantic debt more than sixteen trillion dollars that's one hundred four percent of the nation's...
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president obama and mitt romney meeting for their very first debate in denver. if you look at cnn's polling, viewers thought the winner was crystal clear. >> yeah, 67% of debate watchers surveyed thought romney ran away with it. >> we're going to bring in a democratic strategist, former employee in the clinton administration. great to have you here. dana bash is back us with. and anna navarro, a republican strategist that worked with john mccain and now a cnn contributor. we're glad you're all with us this morning. richard, you know, we have you here this morning on a day -- >> so good to be here this morning. >> a challenging day for the democrats. you saw the debate. you saw what our polls are saying this morning. >> there was a debate last night? >> yeah. >> did the president lose this? >> you know, i think luckily for me this morning history tells us that we don't know really who won or lost in terms of where it moved -- if it moved any votes until many days later. these things have to set in. but clearly, as you have been reporting already this morning and
president obama and mitt romney meeting for their very first debate in denver. if you look at cnn's polling, viewers thought the winner was crystal clear. >> yeah, 67% of debate watchers surveyed thought romney ran away with it. >> we're going to bring in a democratic strategist, former employee in the clinton administration. great to have you here. dana bash is back us with. and anna navarro, a republican strategist that worked with john mccain and now a cnn contributor. we're glad...
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nothing that i expected, did mitt romney win the debate or obama lose the beabt? >> both. i thought the president was unfocused, he was, at times, not clear in the answers, but governor romney showed me during a side of the personality not seen before. he was likable, yes, but decisive, clear, and he moved to the center appealing to inexcellents and moderates. gerri: showing up in the numbers too. steven, you were on hand for for obama today, what did they say? >> they took 12 hours to figure out what the spin was because it was not ready last night. they were late getting to the spin room last night in denver. they settled on a line which was mitt romney might have looked good and sounded good, but everything said was false. he was lying one after another after another. what was interesting on the conference calls, they didn't give much supporting evidence. it's one thing to make the claim, but another to support it in a way to convince the people you're listening to. president obama might be able to do that on the campaign trail talking to partisan democratic audiences,
nothing that i expected, did mitt romney win the debate or obama lose the beabt? >> both. i thought the president was unfocused, he was, at times, not clear in the answers, but governor romney showed me during a side of the personality not seen before. he was likable, yes, but decisive, clear, and he moved to the center appealing to inexcellents and moderates. gerri: showing up in the numbers too. steven, you were on hand for for obama today, what did they say? >> they took 12 hours...
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if you looked at the debate. president obama looked down a lot. and looking at his notes. what about the body language. >> i thought body language. styliically romm rom was the winner. no one disputes that. but the substance issues, when you look at the fact that mitt romney got out there and said, he's not going to voucher -- he will voucherize medicare and cut taxes. what i find interesting is that mitt romney has been all over the place in what he. >> no, he hasn't. >> you can't trust him. just yesterday he said something else. when it comes down to it. they are issues that are challenging. >> for obama to go back to the bill clinton days. bill clinton worked with republicanns, president obama has not. >> he tried to work with republicans. >> one more question i want to ask you both. >> sure. >> what about the undecided vores? that is what they aimed for. who won the undecided vote. >> mitt romney did. independents are result oriented and mitt romney said this is how it worked in the past and going to be done. >> i think independents are undecided if they had the second
if you looked at the debate. president obama looked down a lot. and looking at his notes. what about the body language. >> i thought body language. styliically romm rom was the winner. no one disputes that. but the substance issues, when you look at the fact that mitt romney got out there and said, he's not going to voucher -- he will voucherize medicare and cut taxes. what i find interesting is that mitt romney has been all over the place in what he. >> no, he hasn't. >> you...